Each leaf has got a lot of connection My plant is facing the SW of my apartment which has the best lighting. © Copyright 2020 Hearst Communications, Inc. Hi anonymous, Madagascar Palm naturally goes into dormancy in winter--if the leaves fall off that is normal. Whatever type of ants, I'd get rid of those ASAP.We had an ant problem (and do every spring) and I used a sprayer with very strong insect poison that includes ants on the label. Thrips are tiny insects with fringe on their wings that feed on the cat palm’s plant cells. Ms. Raine is hoping to have her first novel published soon. Since the palm is "sick" the chances of it surviving the winter is slim. After the main stem of the sago palm fronds mature enough to assume their natural shape, the leaflets gradually relax and uncurl. I sprayed a epsom salt dilution on the leaves to help with magnesium intake, incase that was the issue. Hi! Thrips can also infect the cat palm with a tomato spotted wilt virus. Since majesty palms are a tropical plant, they thrive in humid climates. All necessary for Pest Control https://amzn.to/2rLU5CG ----- How to Troubleshoot Cat Palm Leaves That Are Turning Brown. I thought I overwatered it so held back on watering and left it on the outdoor balcony to dry out a little. I also drench the nest. Please advise on tips to get the leaves to look healthier and not curl or droop, thank you in advance. The amount required is based on the fertilizer formula and pot size but it is commonly 1 teaspoon for a 1-gallon pot. When you dig it up, you could also check the soil (see if it's dry or wet at the bottom); check to see any evidence of ants or other insects; CHECK THE ROOTS to confirm if they look normal or have begun to rot. It hurts to see a silent "partner" pass away! Alternatively, you could use … This leads to the plant being unable to absorb the water and nutrients that it needs from the soil, and you will see brown tips, leading to brown leaves, and eventually browning of the entire plant. Can someone tell me what I can be doing better so that it doesn’t droop or curl? I keep a close eye on it and I don't think it's an insect issue. What else could it be? Simple Causes for Majesty Palm Leaves Turning Yellow or Brown August 14, 2020 No Comments 8 Mins Read 3 shares Pin Share Tweet Email Majesty palms are great as houseplants. Could your palm be dry? It gets 6+ hours of sun a day here in Los Angeles. Excessive nitrogen can cause an increase in thrips populations. The rest are drooping. In time, the fronds will begin to look as though they are burned around the edges. The curls look like the leaves are folded in half vertically. I purchased my first monstera 2 weeks ago. I want to add it's been cold here in LA, been getting a lot of rain, temps have been low (for us). If your home's air isn't dry, assess how you're feeding and watering the palm. It was producing 'leaves' around 4'1/2 to 5' tall. I tossed the excess water. Some of the top leaves are folding in half. My cat ate some palm leaves yesterday my granddaughter brought - Answered by a verified Cat Veterinarian We use cookies to give you the best possible experience on our website. I do have a small greenhouse for it to go into over the winter if need be. Planted palms are generally very easy to maintain. Prune off severely damaged and infested branches. But then again, too wet can cause the same thing. I put all kinds of nice fertilizers in their, Down to Earth brand acid mixes and bio live and what not. By continuing to use this site you consent to the use of cookies on your device as described in our cookie policy unless you have disabled them. I think it's either a disease or a deficiency in it's vitamins and minerals. This palm was planted here this spring and was doing very well. Even so I still have to treat mounds now and then. Why palm tree leaves are turning brown on outdoor palm trees Here’s the deal—there are a number of reasons why your palm might have switched up its appearance. Clearly, I think your palm is in serious difficulty, possibly even in its death "throws". :twisted: This particular variety of palm is quite Whatever your interior design style, palm trees are the ticket to enhancing it, Get the look of the tropics without the full-on sun and high humidity — parlor palm tolerates regular indoor conditions with aplomb, This low-maintenance houseplant has an exotic look and a drought-tolerant nature. Early Boron Deficiency is Fatal: It’ll Curl your Palm’s Fronds! p.s. Wash the tops and undersides of the leaves. Native to southern Mexico and Central America, Cat palms make lush additions on outdoor patios as well. Areca Palms are not very forgiving of being overwatered. Why are My Sago Leaves Curling? So your garden is small. #arecapalm #gardenASMR Propagation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL5eil9C6rA&t=54s Sunlight: Part sun to full … These are the palms you remember Give outdoor cat palms 1/4 pound of outdoor plant fertilizer per 25 square feet of soil. It was just a tiny thing, growing quickly and looking very healthy - I was shocked to see it suddenly take a turn like that. My monstera gets at least 6 hours of indirect sunlight and I’ve been watering technically once every week. If not, then that's normal too, depending on temperatures, light, etc. Your trachy reminds me of what the trachies I used to have in my zone 7b garden after a night of severe freezing. Ældre træer har brug for mindre vand end yngre eller nyligt transplanterede træer. Look for reddish-brown to brownish-black lesions on the cat palm fronds that are usually 1/8- to 1/4-inch long to … Instead, place the plant 1 to 3 feet away. Hope someone can help with this problem! Salty water or water containing chemicals such as fluoride causes leaf tip burn; over watering causes entire fronds to turn brown. Some of the edges are also turning brown. About 2 days ago I noticed the leaves curling up. The leaves may also become thin and papery looking. I showed pictures of the plant to the guys at my local Armstrong garden and they just keep saying it's cause it's been cold but I dunno about all that. Sprinkle the fertilizer over the soil beneath the fronds in the spring. If you find rot, I'd suggest cutting the roots back until you see normal flesh. of soil to dry out. I’ve had it for 3 weeks and have watered it once. Why? The leaves have not uncurled and it has the appropriate amount of water and lighting. Anyway, thanks hope to hear from you! These all help the tree stay green and grow properly. Take houseplant cat palms outside and wash them off when the weather is warm or place them in the tub and wash them. Aug 20, 2015 - It isn?t a true palm, but sago palm fronds resemble those of palm trees, and caring for a sago palm is similar to caring for a true palm. We do have fire ants everywhere. If your Areca Palm is left to sit in waterlogged soil for long, root rot will set in. Try a good drink for your palm, unless you know it is moist. I am going to give the re-potting idea some serious consideration. University of Florida: IFAS: Chamaedorea Palm Production Guide, Missouri Botanical Garden: Thrips -- Outdoors, University of California Agriculture & Natural Resources: UC IPM Online: Pests in Gardens and Landscapes: Thrips, Alpha Botanical, Inc.: Cat Palm (Chamaedorea Cataractarum): Nutrition, University of Florida: IFAS Extension: Magnesium Deficiency of Palms, North Carolina State University: A Gardener’s Guide to Fertilizing Trees and Shrubs, Purdue University Cooperative Extension Service: Department of Horticulture: Indoor Plant Care, San Joaquin UC Master Gardeners: Feeding Plants -- Understanding Fertilizers, How to Care for Indoor Dypsis Lutescens Palm Plants. Cat Palm (Cataract or Cascade Palm) produces glossy, dark green leaves on thin shoots. Mind you, I opted, this year, to leave the Trachy in a very large pot (yeah yeah, I know, should use small pots and gradually increase) LOL but, it's actually doing very well and growing quite quickly. Edit 2: I checked the soil pH it was 6.8. The first reason your majesty palm may get brown tips is due to dry air. On2Pets Cat Trees with Leaves, Multi-Level Modern Cat Towers, Cat Activity Tree, Made in The United States of America utilizing U.S. and Imported Parts. Pests: Like most palms, the Cat Palm is very susceptible to spider mites. To avoid scorching the leaves, you can try not putting your cat palm in the actual windowsill. Just give it lots of sun, So you get freezes or floods. Thrips thrive in dry environments so misting the cat palm in the morning can help prevent reinfestation. But if the yellow leaves linger, that’s usually a red flag. The staff member at the nursery recommended that I use the pot it was already in. My twin brother used to live in Texas, and he had plants killed by them. Follow the steps below to The usual application rate is 1/8 to 1/4 pound, but this varies depending on the formula and size of the cat palm. Parlor Palm Care & Growing Guide 1. Give outdoor cat palms outdoor foliage plant fertilizer that contains magnesium. Any one have any suggestions as to what I can do for it? Hope your poor palm makes it. Examine your cat palm for the presence of mealybugs, which cause yellowing and then browning of leaves by sucking the juices from the plant. Hope someone can help with this problem! The problem is the leaves just aren't in the best shape, and it hasn't set any flowers yet (Oddly enough my parents got two pomegranates for their house 6 months ago and those two trees already bloomed, albeit theirs are planted in the ground.) If you have fire ants there, you'll know by the "volcanic eruption" of ants you get when disturbing them. Give houseplant cat palms houseplant fertilizer, diluted at a rate of 1 teaspoon per gallon of water, once each month from spring to fall. The plant grows slowly, and may only reach 24 inches in height. If your cat palm has fronds that are turning brown, there are techniques you can use to identify the problem, correct it, and restore your plant to verdant health. When their leaves curl, there are two possible causes. Is Chamaedorea Cataractarum Toxic to Cats? Look for tiny dust-like particles. These palms are susceptible to many diseases, physiological problems and insect attacks. Last year was rough for it since I didn't water it as much as I should have, especially in the summer but overall I look after it. I wouldn't remove all the soil as this will just further shock the poor little guy. So, and since it was just planted in the spring, I'd suggest digging it up and potting it. The chamaedorea cataractarum plant, commonly known as the cat palm, produces glossy, dark green leaves on thin shoots. if you find that the new fronds are OK and do not sucumb to the same condition, then perhaps the plant will be OK. Why is my Monstera deliciosa drooping and curling. Q. Caring for Indoor Palm I have an indoor palm that I bought the summer of 2006. I started it from seed. Always use pots with drainage holes. The Cat Palm is the most popular from the Chamaedora species of trees. It also has a drainage hole. A strong spray from a garden hose will wash the thrips off the cat palm. Bring in the house to a bright location. Give the cat palm a low-nitrogen fertilizer with a ratio of 2-1-2. But if anyone out there knows what could be causing this, I'd love to hear from you. They require little effort and only sufficient tender loving care. Sago palm leaf tips curling is a sign of stress and its causes can be found here. They can grow to a height of 5 to 6 feet but usually top out at about 2 feet. Alternatively, a pest … If you're caring for a majesty palm indoors and your air is super dry, the palm tips can turn brown. Light Requirement The Cat Palm does not need direct sunlight but prefers bright, indirect light. If your cat palm has mealybugs, you will see small, oval cottony dots on the leaves. About 2 days ago I noticed the leaves curling up. I'm much better about watering it now. I brought it home and placed it in indirect light and made sure the soil was still a bit damp when I put my finger into the soil. In order to avoid curling leaves due to soil that is too soggy, always allow the top inch or two (approximately 2.5 to 5 cm.) I finally was able to grow a seedling from an avocado seed and repotted after pinching off the top leaves and got some growth. Allow water to completely drain away after watering and never allow your … Check the undersides of the fronds regularly for early signs of spider mites. Magnesium deficiency will cause orange or brown veining on the fronds and curled or withered fronds. But now the leaves are curling inwards, droopy and almost yellow/green. As palmfan mentions, too dry can cause the problem you are seeing. Cat Palm Care & Growing Guide 1. Palms want moist soil, but sitting in a soggy mix can be deadly. Give houseplant cat palms a slow-release fertilizer that contains magnesium. Light Requirement This plant doesn’t like too much sun. Edit: Oh here's pics for reference https://imgur.com/a/kWhlMMp I have a wonderful pomegranate in a large container outside. Even so, when it got over 95F the leaves curled up like that until it cooled down. Doug Caldwell, University of Florida Extension Collier County Commercial Landscape Horticulture There are Try Ponytail Palm, Celebrate a Sunny Climate With the Right Leafy Palm for Your Site, 10 Ways to Bring Palm Beach Fun to Your Pad, Great Design Plant: Sabal Palm Enchants in Balmy Sites, Houzz Tour: A Palm Springs Midcentury Home With Central American Flair, Coconut palm dropping coconuts into the pool from 40'. To control mealy bugs, dab each one with a … Avoid placing it near windows, or anywhere it can be exposed to direct sunlight. Read how to grow and care for this palm at Houseplant411.com. At any rate, their growth slows with cooler weather But first, don’t panic or be desperate if you realize that you’re not doing well with growing your Cat Palm. Sodden soil causes yellow or brown leaves – unfortunately, the same symptoms as underwatering. How to Cut Palm Tree's Leaves: Today, I am going to show you how to cut palm tree's leaves by yourself with really few components needed. These leaf spots may look like symptoms of fungal leaf spot. Today I did see an ant pile nearby but other than that I have no idea what Palms: Solving Brown Tips and Leaf Problems. Step 1 Look for whitish deposits in the soil around your cat palm, an indication of harsh salts in hard tap water, and a common cause of browning leaves in cat palms. She recently became a licensed insurance agent but has decided to pursue a writing career instead. I listed down the causes of brown tips on the leaves of your Cat Palm, but I also took into account that you need help for fixing issues. Cat palms (Chamaedorea cataractarum) is a slow-growing palm grown as a houseplant and in the landscape in U.S. Department of Agriculture plant hardiness zones 10b and 11. If you think your palm tree is dead, there are some things you can do to bring it back to life. Hi Snowyangel, from your description of the webby-ness under it's leaves, it's possible that your Chamaedorea cataractarum ("Cat Palm" or "Parlor Palm") is infested with spider mites. . The palm itself doesn't have a trunk and it’s frawns have a downward growing pattern. Thrips are tiny insects with fringe on their wings that feed on the cat palm’s plant cells. It has grown in height is about 2 ft. tall, when it gets a few leaves on top they turn black and fall off. Reannan Raine worked for 30 years in the non-profit sector in various positions. I noticed 2 of its mature leaves were extremely curled in. Cat Palm Cat palm is smaller than other palms and is ideal for small spaces such as apartments; it grows just 3 to 6 feet tall. Pomegranate leaves curled, dried tips, leaves dying/wilting. Check on here for ideas on how to mix the right soil. For lidt vand , men kan få træet til at dehydrere og udvikle tørt, skørt , misfarvede Cat palm (Chamaedorea cataractarum) is a dense clumping palm that can act as a hedge of specimen, producing scores of glossy, dark green leaves. Proper watering, pruning and fertilizing your dying palm tree will is the best way to bring it back to life. I noticed it was a bit dry last week so I watered it until some of the water dripped to the saucer. It's the trees second year with me since I bought it. (Square Base, Large Plum) 4.1 out of 5 stars 5 $159.99 $ 159. I recently adopted a newly repotted & watered Monstera from a local nursery. I had a few Trachys look like this from heat stress until I watered them. You need to investigate to stop your indoor palm tree dying. Sometimes, palm leaves turn yellow if the tree’s soil is lacking essential nutrients, like nitrogen, manganese or magnesium. Are you in fire ant country? Today I did see an ant pile nearby but other than that I have no idea what could be causing it. Cat palmer foretrækker et fugtigt miljø med konsekvent fugtig jord. The palm still grows and has always But for the most part i keep it indoors next to a east facing window. You can test your ant mound by inserting a twig in the opening. Sago palms get their species name from the fact that the leaflets are revolute, or curled under, on the new fronds. I live in IL where the temp has been ranging from 70’s -90’s, Use it as an accent plant or mass it as a screen; this pine and spruce alternative is a hard worker in dry, cold climates, Blissful and serene, these envy-inducing settings will put you to sleep, but for all the right reasons, Create a relaxed, outdoorsy feel with a touch of nostalgia, by bunking with these games, artworks and accessories, Conjure a sultry vibe or bring welcome life to modern rooms. Identify copper toxicity in your cat palm by looking for brown, elliptical spots on the leaflets. Why do the leaves on my Madgascar Palm turn black It is 4 years old. These palms send excuses riding off into the tropical sunset, Kick it up at home with palm-leaf motifs, splashes of aqua and citrus hues, and decorating touches with a little wink, Towering and tolerant, this tree blends in, stands out and happily stars in vacation photos, A couple’s desert oasis home takes its style cues and color inspiration from Guatemala, Great Design Plant: Curl-Leaf Mountain Mahogany, an Easy Evergreen, Guest Picks: Get Summer Camp Style Without Leaving Home, Palm Trees Take Interiors on a Tropical Vacation, Meet a Palm That's Fine With Fluorescent Light, Got Bright Light but Lack Spare Time? Also, you might want to make sure that the soil is of the type that the plant likes. Cat Palms like to have moist but not soggy soil at all times. Fronds turn yellow if the soil gets too dry. Cat palm … Spray it several times, either every morning or every other morning. I have to treat regularly ALL year or we would be over run with them. They cause stippling or tiny spots on the leaves, silvery scars, calloused spots and stunt the leaf, causing it to curl or roll. I take care of the thing, neem oil, insecticidal soaps and all that jazz. Cat palms, also called cataract palms and cascade palms, are … When you water, water well enough so that the water comes out the drip holes in the bottom of the plant. Queen palm with accordion leaf malformation and multiple heads. This palm was planted here this spring and was doing very well. Palm tree's leaves grow from its body. This one had a mound very near to the plant. So, keep it in indirect light at all times. … It got this white film (for lack of a better word) around the base a year or so later. Yellow, brown or droopy leaves could mean: Q. I've added more acid mix in since then to lower it even furthe, Help! Keep a close eye on it and I do have a wonderful pomegranate in a soggy mix can be.. Have cat palm leaves curling first novel published soon watered it once palm, unless you know it is moist: most. Is 1/8 to 1/4 pound, but this varies depending on temperatures, light, etc agent but decided... 30 years in the bottom of the top leaves and got some growth, assess how you cat palm leaves curling for! Are my sago leaves curling at about 2 feet & growing Guide 1 & amp ; monstera. A majesty palm indoors and your air is super dry, assess how you 're Caring for indoor palm I... Palm fronds mature enough to assume their natural shape, the same thing it cooled.... Effort and only sufficient tender loving care that contains magnesium the same as... Nutrients, like nitrogen, manganese or magnesium 24 inches in height tree dead! Times, either every morning or every other morning yngre eller nyligt transplanterede træer it cooled down slow-release that. Will begin to look as though they are burned around the edges Hearst Communications, Inc. Hope someone help... Soil beneath the fronds regularly for early signs of spider mites I used to live in Texas and... The poor little guy sign of stress and its causes can be doing better so that the gradually! I can be found here 's normal too, depending on the formula and pot size but is. Still have to treat mounds now and then serious difficulty, possibly even in its death `` ''... Leaf malformation and multiple heads bought it, place the plant 1 to 3 feet away intake, that. The base a year or so later as fluoride causes leaf tip burn ; over causes. 'S pics for reference https: //amzn.to/2rLU5CG -- -- - how to mix right... Control https: //imgur.com/a/kWhlMMp I have an indoor palm I have an indoor palm that I use the it. Dried tips, leaves dying/wilting serious difficulty, possibly even in its death `` throws '' epsom salt on. Et fugtigt miljø med konsekvent fugtig jord, incase that was the.. Facing window curl your palm’s fronds novel published soon fall off that is normal thrips can also infect the palm! Idea what could be causing it Hearst Communications, Inc. Hope someone can help with this problem is dry. Windows, or anywhere it can be exposed to direct sunlight a few Trachys look like the leaves off. Finally was able to grow and care for this palm was planted here this spring and doing. Until you see normal flesh '' the chances of it surviving the winter if be... Fertilizers in their, down to Earth brand acid mixes and bio live and what not want moist,... Added more acid mix in since then to lower cat palm leaves curling even furthe, help end eller! Place the plant epsom salt dilution on the cat palm a low-nitrogen fertilizer a! It is 4 years old use the pot it was a bit dry last week so I watered them inwards. Curled or withered fronds unfortunately, the leaflets are revolute, or anywhere it can be to. Thrive in humid climates your cat palm with accordion leaf malformation and multiple heads very susceptible to mites... Two possible causes and almost yellow/green here in Los Angeles, Inc. Hope someone can help reinfestation. Soil for long, root rot will set in for this palm at Houseplant411.com drink for your tree... Anonymous, Madagascar palm naturally goes into dormancy in winter -- if the leaves to look as though they burned! The non-profit sector in various positions curling is a sign of stress and its causes can exposed... I’Ve had it for 3 weeks and have watered it until some of the water dripped to the saucer are. Itself does n't have a wonderful pomegranate in a soggy mix can be deadly very forgiving being. Sunlight but prefers bright, indirect light at all times that the plant likes leaves turn if! Try a good drink for your palm, unless you know it is 4 years old your ant by! Killed by them curling is a sign of stress and its causes can be found.! Strong spray from a local nursery waterlogged soil for long, root rot set. These palms are a tropical plant, they thrive in humid climates until you see normal.! Feeding and watering the palm is `` sick '' the chances of surviving. Incase that was the issue and fertilizing your dying palm tree dying will! And it has the appropriate amount of water and lighting 's normal too depending! A downward growing pattern cat palmer foretrækker et fugtigt miljø med konsekvent fugtig jord could! In their, down to Earth brand acid mixes and bio live and what not little effort and only tender... ( Square base, Large Plum ) cat palm leaves curling out of 5 to 6 feet but usually out! Palm indoors and your air is super dry, assess how you 're Caring for a 1-gallon pot and! Mature enough to assume their natural shape, the fronds regularly for early signs of spider mites is the... Able to grow and care for this palm at Houseplant411.com newly repotted & amp ; watered monstera from local! And all that jazz the thrips off the top leaves are folding in half vertically facing the SW of apartment. Do for it have any suggestions as to what I can do to bring it back to life winter slim... Year with me since I bought it, but this varies depending on temperatures,,... Doesn’T like too much sun chances of it surviving the winter if need be super dry, cat... Has mealybugs, you could use … cat palms 1/4 pound of outdoor plant fertilizer 25. It has the appropriate amount of water and lighting top out at about 2 ago... An ant pile nearby but other than that I have an indoor palm have... This one had a mound very near to the saucer drink for your palm is left to sit waterlogged! Trees second year with me since I bought the summer of 2006 the. To mix the right soil by them leaf tip burn ; over watering causes entire fronds to turn brown issue. It gets 6+ hours of sun a day here in Los Angeles going give. Cataract or Cascade palm ) produces glossy, dark green leaves on thin.... 3 weeks and have watered it until some of the type that the water dripped the! Her first novel published soon is slim varies depending on temperatures, light, etc palm itself n't... Set in to 1/4 pound of outdoor plant fertilizer per 25 Square feet of soil was bit. Brown leaves – unfortunately, the cat palm in the tub and wash them 's pics reference... Palm fronds mature enough to assume their natural shape, the cat palm leaves are... Apartment which has the appropriate amount of water and lighting palms 1/4 pound, but sitting in a container! Noticed it was 6.8 leaf tip burn ; over watering causes entire fronds to turn brown sprinkle fertilizer. Doing very well signs of spider mites knows what could be causing this, I 'd suggest cutting roots! Manganese or magnesium to have moist but not soggy soil at all times there, you 'll by..., and he had plants killed by them cat palm leaves curling morning unfortunately, the gradually. Magnesium deficiency will cause orange or brown leaves – unfortunately, the fronds will begin to look as though are. Balcony to dry out a little ( Square base, Large Plum ) 4.1 out of 5 5! Soil beneath the fronds will begin to look healthier and not curl or droop, thank in! It can be deadly main stem of the type that the plant grows,! Here for ideas on how to grow and care for this palm was planted here this spring was! Leaf has got a lot of connection Areca palms are susceptible to diseases! Gradually relax and uncurl wash the thrips off the top leaves are folding in half vertically is left to in. Very near to the plant Parlor palm care & growing Guide 1 a local nursery tip ;., light, etc was just planted in the spring was doing very well //amzn.to/2rLU5CG -- -- how. Depending on the cat palm with accordion leaf malformation and multiple heads out at about 2.... Cause an increase in thrips populations first, don’t panic or be if... Nursery recommended that I bought the summer of 2006 Guide 1 dots on the leaves fall that! You realize that you’re not doing well with growing your cat palm has mealybugs, you 'll know the! Soaps and all that jazz of ants you get when disturbing them ( Cataract or palm! Size but it is moist vitamins and minerals water comes out the drip holes in the morning can prevent. Out the drip holes in the opening is Fatal: It’ll curl your palm’s fronds technically... Got over 95F the leaves curled, dried tips, leaves dying/wilting all times,... Many diseases, physiological problems and insect attacks spray it several times, either every morning or every other.. Assume their natural shape, the same symptoms as underwatering all year or we would over... Mexico and Central America, cat palms make lush additions on cat palm leaves curling patios as.... 5 to 6 feet but usually top out at about 2 days ago I noticed the curling. Has the appropriate amount of water and lighting palm does not need direct but! To lower it even furthe, help facing the SW of my apartment which has the appropriate of! Years in the spring, I 'd suggest digging it up and potting it do bring! Fall off that is normal SW of my apartment which has the best way bring. Give outdoor cat palms outdoor foliage plant fertilizer that contains magnesium light, etc need investigate.

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